EP 235: Building Trust With Investors Through Transparency with Pat Zingarella from Invest Clearly

[00:00:00] Hello, and thank you for joining us today on The Gentle Art of Crushing It Show, where we focus on learning and sharing with our listeners all there is to know about how to create success in our lives. This show stands on the shoulders of giants. Our mission is to empower and inspire our listeners to create the life of their dreams whilst having a blast in the process. Let's celebrate life together. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:26] All right, welcome back to The Gentle Art of Crushing It podcast. My name is Randy Smith and I will be your host today. And really excited to have Pat Zingarella with us today. Pat is the CEO of Invest Clearly. And Invest Clearly is a GP review and directory for passive investors to help vet operators deals opportunities. So Pat, welcome to the show.

[00:00:57] Thanks Randy. Super excited to be on here with you.

[00:01:00] Awesome. Well, let's let's kick it off like we always do. Pat, I'd love to hear your perspective on today's market conditions and how they are impacting passive investors opportunities in today's market.

[00:01:14] Yeah, it's funny. I get exposure to both sides in Invest Clearly. The perspective from the GP, the perspective of the LP, it really depends on who you're talking to and what's coming next.

[00:01:26] I remember at the best ever conference last year, there was someone, an economist presenting and the world was ending. And then the GPs you talked to right after that they're still raising capital. I think that you've got to disconnect from the media fear is what I think, you know, is there fear in the market? Yeah.

[00:01:41] I mean, LPs are definitely concerned, but they still want to place capital. And I think the direction of this market is capital will still be raised. It's just the, I would say competition to raise that capital is getting stronger.

[00:01:56] The direction, I think it's opportunistic. I really, really do. Deals will always be done. It's just a lot more due diligence and a lot more, I don't want to say scrutiny, but a lot more maybe detail is going into the evaluation process. So I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I wouldn't be in this business if I thought it was shutting down next year. But it's, it's, it's, I think it's, it's opportunistic.

[00:02:19] Love it. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. I was at the same conference with you and it like every conference I go to, it's baffling how they'll put one economist up on the stage. It's doom and gloom. The world's ending. Don't invest. Like, you know, we're literally losing everything. And then they'll put up another economist right after him who has an entirely different perspective. So I think it's important to listen to both sides and then make your own decision.

[00:02:45] And just make sure that you've got trusted experts in your corner that you can go to that you, that you trust, but come up with your own decisions, your own thesis, and then go execute on the thesis. So yeah, that, that's an interesting take. We haven't heard that yet on this show, but I think that makes a lot of sense. So.

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[00:03:29] Well, Pat, let's, let's back up a little bit. Can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? I know you and I met, I want to say probably three years ago now in a mindset community that we're both a part of.

[00:03:41] But yeah, tell me about Pat and where you are and where you came from.

[00:03:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually met Jenny first. I had an awesome conversation with Jenny about her business and her goals and all of that. And that segued into her joining the program and then getting to meet you and then meet you in person.

[00:03:57] It was, it's just a really cool kind of connection with you. But yeah, my background, my, my, my journey here is not uncommon. My, my journey into real estate investing is not uncommon. I started in corporate America. I was an account executive for a global company that specialized in IT research and advisory services.

[00:04:14] My role is to effectively support startup tech companies with go-to-market strategy and revenue generating growth initiatives. And during that time, I spent a lot of, I started getting into these masterminds, right? That coaching program. I started talking to people like, like yourself that was making the transition.

[00:04:32] I started listening to podcasts and recognized there was a world much bigger out there than I was living in my, my desk job. And so that started my foray into, into real estate. I started investing small, you know, sub five multifamily.

[00:04:47] And then I started to get around people doing, doing bigger things, made the step into commercial.

[00:04:52] I eventually left my, my W2 job and in pursuit of entrepreneurship full time, launched a sales consulting business. And then that led to invest clearly.

[00:05:00] Now the steps in between there is, is really what led to invest clearly during my, my sales consulting business.

[00:05:07] I was considering becoming an LP and I was selling for a digital market agency called GenRev that provides accredited investor lead gen.

[00:05:16] And at the time I was spending a lot of time with GPs. I was considering becoming an LP and I would spend like five, I, you know, I would talk to five plus sponsors in a week, all in the same asset class.

[00:05:27] And I really couldn't figure out how to differentiate between any of them. At the same time, the company that I worked for in corporate America, they had a subsidiary that created a software review site where chief investment off or chief information officers that were looking at pursuing large investments in technology would go read a directory of all of the vendors that sold that technology.

[00:05:52] And then read reviews by other CIOs that had experienced with them to help with their decision. It was objective. It was unbiased.

[00:06:00] And so I started doing my due diligence to become an LP and I realized there wasn't a central location where every sponsor existed.

[00:06:07] There wasn't a central location that had reviews from limited partners that shared their experience with those, with those GPs.

[00:06:15] And then I also realized that the majority of the content out there that supported LPs were written by GPs.

[00:06:23] And so I was trying to find this objective resource that I could go start my, I guess, identification process of who I should pursue.

[00:06:32] What I'm reading and hearing, I really didn't find that anywhere.

[00:06:37] Same time, I had an experience with a commercial real estate investor.

[00:06:43] It wasn't a syndication, I guess you could say co-invested with this individual.

[00:06:47] I ended up committing a ton of fraud and could have just been detrimental to me.

[00:06:52] I realized early on that if I, and it turns out he did this to about 60 other investors as well.

[00:06:57] And so I realized early on that I was led by confirmation bias, by what I was seeing in the media, him rising up high in communities and circles and Instagram and things like that.

[00:07:11] Where if I had a platform like InvestClearly, I was like, maybe I could have, number one, prevented what I went through, but also prevented others from doing the same because I caught it early.

[00:07:22] And so all of those combined is what led me to building InvestClearly.

[00:07:27] I love it.

[00:07:28] Yeah, no, this is, I mean, this is a common journey that every LP has gone through.

[00:07:34] Everybody that's listening to this show starts at some point and they really don't know where to go.

[00:07:39] And to your point, like if you're, everybody you talk to is pitching their own, pitching their own deal, right?

[00:07:46] Pitching their own deck.

[00:07:47] They're only going to present it in a positive way.

[00:07:49] And the newer, newer passive investor might not be equipped with the skills or the expertise or education to really vet those operators.

[00:07:57] So I love, love, love what you're doing with InvestClearly.

[00:08:02] And I wish it was something that was available when I first got started because I'm sure I would not have made some of those early investments that I made.

[00:08:09] So yeah, you talked about this idea of a central location for reviews.

[00:08:15] And I've been around some other communities that try to do something similar.

[00:08:22] And I will share that I've not found anybody that's really figured this out.

[00:08:25] It looks like you guys are on the right track with it.

[00:08:27] But one of the challenges that I always ran into is that there seems to be some legal issues around providing a platform like this where people are worried about getting targeted for slander or, you know, essentially saying things that are not true about operators.

[00:08:45] So I'm curious, like, how does your platform handle that?

[00:08:49] Because if you're not allowing people to share their opinion because of these fears about litigation, then basically you lose the whole value of the platform, I would imagine.

[00:09:01] So how are you guys dealing with that?

[00:09:03] Yeah.

[00:09:04] I mean, it's funny.

[00:09:05] We've had this conversation a million and 50 times internally.

[00:09:08] I mean, to be direct, there are laws in place that prevent these types of things.

[00:09:14] That's why Twitter exists, right?

[00:09:16] That's why Reddit exists.

[00:09:17] There are rules and regulations that prevent these sort of objective sites from facing.

[00:09:23] On the other hand, people can sue you for whatever they want.

[00:09:25] You know what I mean?

[00:09:26] But for us, our goal, we work on this in a couple different ways.

[00:09:30] The first one is that we minimize, you know, I would love to say eliminate, but, you know, that won't happen.

[00:09:37] But we minimize, I would say, untrue reviews, inexperienced, false reviews because we require proof that the investor invested with that GP prior to every review being published.

[00:09:48] On the other hand, we have community guidelines and compliance that we have to stick by.

[00:09:53] And again, you know, it's important for that because you can't just go on there and slander someone because you don't like them or personally attack somebody.

[00:10:03] If it's tied to a true experience, it will get published, right?

[00:10:05] There are bad reviews on the site.

[00:10:07] And it's important because it paints the true picture.

[00:10:11] Now, on the other hand, Randy, I don't want this to seem like we are the GP reaper, right?

[00:10:17] The majority of our reviews have been positive, right?

[00:10:21] I'm not going to say 100%.

[00:10:22] We're definitely seeing more organic reviews lean towards negative.

[00:10:25] But as you had mentioned, you know, there are decks that get present mainly in a positive manner.

[00:10:32] And on the other hand, there's a lot of people out there that are like have been doing this a long time and outperforming their projections,

[00:10:39] but have a hard time putting together a deck that virtually go unheard of.

[00:10:42] And we're representing that GP as well.

[00:10:44] So our mission is both sides.

[00:10:47] Should people have the transparency where they can see the negative experiences?

[00:10:54] 100%.

[00:10:54] But we also have built this in a way where the great GPs rise to the top for people to find.

[00:10:59] And we're seeing that side, I mean, big time.

[00:11:02] So you mentioned that you have to provide some type of proof just so you're actually verifying that people have invested in these opportunities before they give them a rating.

[00:11:14] How do you guys do that?

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:16] Every single review before it's published, it goes to a moderator, which is me.

[00:11:19] And during the review process, there's like, I want to say three steps.

[00:11:22] The first step, you choose the sponsor.

[00:11:24] Second step, you write the review.

[00:11:25] Third step, you upload proof.

[00:11:27] Now, proof can be anything that is undeniable that shows you invested with that GP.

[00:11:33] A lot of people will upload screenshots of their investor portal.

[00:11:36] People will send me summary statements.

[00:11:38] People will send me, let me think what else.

[00:11:41] You know, if there's like an email automation that is undeniable that it came from their investor portal, for example, hey, your K1 is ready.

[00:11:47] It's been uploaded to your portal.

[00:11:48] Click here.

[00:11:48] Anyone can look at this and say, okay, this is undeniable that this came from a result of investment.

[00:11:55] And then that goes to me.

[00:11:56] I match up the user, the email.

[00:12:00] The names have to be visible on the proof.

[00:12:02] It's effectively if anybody comes in here and looks at this like, okay, yeah, this is obvious.

[00:12:06] And then after that, it gets published.

[00:12:08] So it goes to a moderator who is me right now that reviews every single one of them.

[00:12:13] I love it.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:14] When people are on the site, they're seeing reviews.

[00:12:16] They know with almost 100% confidence that these are actual investors that invested in the deals that they're talking about, which is super, super powerful because there's a lot of people on websites or on social media that are talking about other sponsors.

[00:12:33] And you don't have any way of knowing whether they've invested with them or not.

[00:12:35] So I think that adds a lot of credibility and legitimacy to this offering.

[00:12:41] Now, my mind goes to this.

[00:12:43] Like, if I've had a negative experience with somebody, I don't like to throw anybody under the bus.

[00:12:50] And I certainly don't want to be viewed negatively by operators as well to where maybe operators won't want me to invest with them if they see that I'm putting negative comments out there.

[00:13:03] So how do you handle that?

[00:13:05] Yeah, that's a good question.

[00:13:07] And look, we've built this in a way that we know not every single LP will write a review.

[00:13:13] That's just what it is.

[00:13:14] Or they may write a review when it's adopted more.

[00:13:17] But LPs do have the ability, if you don't want to have your name out there for whatever reason, it can be an anonymous review.

[00:13:24] It is anonymous publicly.

[00:13:25] It is not anonymous to me.

[00:13:27] So we still go through the same verification step on the back end, but the LP has the ability to publish the review with their display name as verified.

[00:13:35] And it's not just as simple as a, you know, a, hey, I don't want to be out there badmouthing people.

[00:13:41] But some people just don't want to be prospected to either.

[00:13:44] You know what I mean?

[00:13:44] Because there's a, there's, there's the mission of invest clearly is to create a safer ecosystem.

[00:13:48] And people may have that end goal in mind and want to participate in that, but just simply don't want their name on display.

[00:13:56] And so we offer that ability as well.

[00:13:59] Yeah, no, that's great.

[00:14:01] Because I think it creates a safe environment, one where people are going to share openly and honestly without the fear of any type of retaliation from sponsors or other people as well.

[00:14:12] It sounds to me like if you're gathering a bunch of LPs and potentially you have operators as well, I guess we'll get into that in just a minute.

[00:14:19] But it sounds like there could be a community aspect of this as well.

[00:14:24] Have you thought about bringing that into this platform or is that already a part of this platform today?

[00:14:29] Yeah, of course.

[00:14:30] So we, you know, we, we, we, we have and we're.

[00:14:35] And it's funny that we have, I mean, our future product roadmap is just endless and grows on the day in the futures.

[00:14:42] Yeah, we would love to do a community at some point.

[00:14:43] I think understanding where we want to be in the due diligence cycle and the LP to LP communication cycle is something we're figuring out.

[00:14:52] But we do get asked about community often.

[00:14:55] We're going to put that together at this point.

[00:14:57] I'm not sure.

[00:14:58] We would love to do, to do something like that.

[00:15:00] That's definitely in the hopper.

[00:15:01] You know, we, we've modeled this pretty directly off of a lot of the tech evaluation companies that we, you know, the review sites that we've seen.

[00:15:10] And a lot of people do that very successfully.

[00:15:12] So we're, we'll roll some, some stuff out with that hopefully soon.

[00:15:17] Yeah, very good.

[00:15:18] Well, let's, let's, if we can kind of shift.

[00:15:21] Now we talk generally to newer, newer passive investors, but there are a lot of operators as well that listen to the podcast.

[00:15:28] So is there a value to operators having a presence on the site?

[00:15:34] And if so, what, what kind of value can they get other than potentially finding passive investors, I guess?

[00:15:40] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:41] So, so yeah, we've, we've built this to align very directly to the LP as well as the GP.

[00:15:46] So, so the, the mission for the GP here is building trust with new investors through transparency, right?

[00:15:51] And it's also standing out in a massively, massively competitive world.

[00:15:55] So where we see this as hyper valuable to GPs is, is really at the bottom of the funnel.

[00:15:59] Like right now in the market of capital raising, the, it's the challenges GPs are facing is conversion.

[00:16:07] I talk to new investors.

[00:16:09] My conversion rates are dropping, right?

[00:16:11] And it could be because there's fear in the market.

[00:16:13] Number two is re-engagement, right?

[00:16:16] If I didn't close the LPs on day one, how do I re-engage with them?

[00:16:20] And then stall decision cycles, right?

[00:16:22] Is there a sit and wait?

[00:16:23] Is there, I'm not sure you versus somebody else.

[00:16:25] What is it?

[00:16:26] Our goal is to help GPs create credibility by being transparent.

[00:16:32] And what do I mean by that?

[00:16:33] GPs are collecting testimonials and putting people on reference calls all day long.

[00:16:37] Investors know that's cherry picked.

[00:16:38] Our site is a, Hey, go look at the 10 objective unbiased reviews that I can't influence.

[00:16:44] I have no decision whether they get posted or not.

[00:16:46] Where an LP has gone through a multi-step process to prove they've actually invested in one of my deals.

[00:16:52] So, you know, it's a true experience to help with your decision, right?

[00:16:55] It's a powerful statement.

[00:16:56] It's a powerful statement in a world we'll trust is a very, very difficult thing to earn right now.

[00:17:01] And so that is really the goal for a GP at the bottom of the funnel.

[00:17:05] And there's also the discoverability aspect, right?

[00:17:07] A GP comes on and the biggest thing to remember is a GP does not need to know who we are or participate with us for a profile to exist on our site.

[00:17:15] Right?

[00:17:16] So, so GPs profiles will exist and LPs can still review them whether or not they've even heard about us.

[00:17:22] And so power for the GPs is you go in here and you claim your profile, you fill out your profile.

[00:17:28] This is the only place online where an LP can find you without knowing who you are based on your performance metrics.

[00:17:34] LPs come in here, they enter in their investment preferences, they fill out searches, they create short lists of sponsors they want to pursue based on those investment preferences.

[00:17:43] Well, how do you increase discoverability?

[00:17:47] You have the metrics in your profile that I may not have been able to find online.

[00:17:51] A lot of these things are hidden or maybe hidden behind vanity metrics or something like that.

[00:17:57] But the more you enhance your profile, the more likely people are to find you.

[00:18:01] Now, that doesn't mean we as a company endorse you more or recommend you or anything like that.

[00:18:08] We're completely objective in that manner, but it's the search results speak for themselves as LPs are searching.

[00:18:12] I love it.

[00:18:13] Okay, very good.

[00:18:14] So for the operators that are out there, it sounds like the action step is go out there and claim your profile.

[00:18:20] Yeah.

[00:18:21] Enhance your profile and then start to potentially send investors to the site to offer reviews.

[00:18:29] Because I'm thinking like with Impact Equity, I have like a referral process.

[00:18:33] I have a process where I ask for testimonials from investors.

[00:18:37] But this would be an ideal platform for me.

[00:18:40] Instead of using some third-party testimonial platform, send them your way.

[00:18:45] And then they're automatically posted whether I agree with the testimony or not.

[00:18:49] So I like that.

[00:18:50] I think it's a great – you said it very well.

[00:18:53] Third-party, objective, unbiased review, which ultimately is the best type of testimonial there is.

[00:19:01] So very good.

[00:19:02] And honestly, Randy, this is great for fund managers because you – with Impact Equity, you have two layers of trust that you have to earn.

[00:19:11] You have to earn the trust of the LP in you, and then you have to earn the trust of the LP in your ability to choose the sponsor or the sponsors.

[00:19:18] And so with the fund managers, it's you have reviews on Impact Equity, and then you also have reviews on the sponsor that you've decided to partner with.

[00:19:26] And so it's just this double layer of, let's say, trust transfers that may be difficult elsewhere.

[00:19:32] So yeah, that's how we've been thinking about that.

[00:19:34] Because early on – and again, I think the world – this industry is moving very heavily into fund-to-funds and feeder funds and things like that.

[00:19:43] So the differentiation there is huge in my opinion.

[00:19:49] Absolutely.

[00:19:50] Well, let's circle back if we can then.

[00:19:53] We put kind of a plan in place for GPs.

[00:19:55] But if you're a passive investor, when should they start leveraging your tool?

[00:20:02] Should it be go out there and find the first investment?

[00:20:06] Should it be go there and do a bunch of reviews on deals they've already done?

[00:20:10] How should the passive investor engage with this community?

[00:20:13] Good question.

[00:20:14] I mean, it's all of the above.

[00:20:15] And for example, so InvestClearly exists, as I mentioned, to create a safer ecosystem among LPs.

[00:20:22] This only happens with the review participation of other LPs.

[00:20:27] And so the way to think about this is LPs are writing reviews to support their fellow LP in their decision-making process to either find a great sponsor or avoid a risky one with the understanding that the LP will also do the same for them.

[00:20:42] And so if an LP has experience with a sponsor, regardless of where they are in the cycle, yes, go out and write a review on them.

[00:20:53] Now, I know in my journey that I can't incentivize someone to write a review.

[00:20:59] Some people will never write a review regardless, and that's completely okay.

[00:21:02] And I'll never force anyone into it.

[00:21:04] I'll never gaslight anyone into writing a review.

[00:21:06] It has to come from the decision of the LP whether or not they want to write one.

[00:21:09] And at the same time, yeah, if you're a new LP getting started, keep in mind, I started this because I wanted it.

[00:21:14] I was considering being an LP, and I was looking for a resource like this that didn't exist.

[00:21:18] I didn't know who to choose.

[00:21:19] I didn't know where to find them.

[00:21:20] I didn't know who to trust and why to trust them.

[00:21:22] And so leveraging this to understand, hey, I'm interested in the multifamily asset class.

[00:21:27] I am interested in the Sunbelt region.

[00:21:29] I am interested in four or five-star sponsors.

[00:21:33] Pop on there.

[00:21:34] Create a short list.

[00:21:35] Follow sponsors if you want.

[00:21:36] If you're not ready to engage with them right away, you have the ability to bookmark them.

[00:21:40] See what happens.

[00:21:40] Are they collecting reviews?

[00:21:42] Are they launching new deals?

[00:21:43] Are they doing things like that?

[00:21:45] And then you make the decision when you want to engage.

[00:21:47] So we've built this really at all stages of the, I would say, the, I don't want to say due diligence cycle, but like selection and decision cycle is like, okay, you are coming here to find a short list of sponsors that match your investment preferences.

[00:22:02] And then you go and you talk to these sponsors, then you come back and you validate what you're reading online and what you're hearing from them if it matches the experiences that other investors have had.

[00:22:11] So all of the above to make a long question short.

[00:22:16] Yeah, no, I love it.

[00:22:17] And I can see that there's probably going to be a population of LPs that are just going to go out there and they're going to do research to find potential investors.

[00:22:25] They might never put their own reviews on there.

[00:22:28] And I think that's good.

[00:22:30] You're providing value to those people as well.

[00:22:32] But where this really, really starts to get powerful is when active LPs take a little bit of time to give back to the community.

[00:22:39] And, you know, I've looked at this from certainly when I'm investing with operators, I want everybody to know the good operators that I'm dealing with.

[00:22:46] Yeah.

[00:22:47] On the other side of that coin, I have actually invested in some deals that did not turn out as planned and not as advertised.

[00:22:54] And just as much as I want people to know about good ones, I even more so want to know that I want investors to know about the bad ones as well.

[00:23:01] And I can't share those type of details on this, on a podcast or on social media.

[00:23:08] But this gives me an avenue to help protect those LPs from some of the mistakes that I've made historically.

[00:23:15] So I absolutely love what you guys are doing with this.

[00:23:17] My ask of the audience is definitely use this platform to go find your next ones.

[00:23:22] But share your experience, share your experience about impact equity, share your experience about all of the other operators that you're investing with.

[00:23:31] And over time, this will become an extremely powerful resource that we can all benefit from.

[00:23:37] So, yeah, thank you, Pat, for all that you're doing with this.

[00:23:41] I know early entrepreneurship, you are probably not making hundreds of millions of dollars on this platform or even hundreds of dollars at times.

[00:23:49] But, yeah, the effort and the energy you're putting into this is greatly appreciated by me and, I'm sure, many, many others.

[00:23:56] So thank you.

[00:23:56] Thank you.

[00:23:57] Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:57] It's exciting, man.

[00:23:58] It's definitely – it's a journey.

[00:24:00] It's a journey.

[00:24:01] It's different than any other investment I've ever made because it's been build, build, build, build, build, build, build, and then sell.

[00:24:11] You know what I mean?

[00:24:12] So it's fun, though.

[00:24:14] It's so fun.

[00:24:14] And I'm learning a lot and, you know, I get to – I'm uniquely positioned to learn about both sides, I would say, of the industry, which is really cool as well.

[00:24:23] But, yeah, I'm enjoying it.

[00:24:25] Very good.

[00:24:26] Well, is there anything that we didn't discuss about the platform that you want to highlight or maybe reemphasize potentially?

[00:24:34] No, I don't think so.

[00:24:35] So I think the biggest thing to remember – and, again, I bring up – this doesn't exist without the reviews.

[00:24:40] I mean, that is, I would say, the social proof is the first step.

[00:24:43] You know, we have a value, a long-term value prop and a long-term vision that goes well beyond just review collection.

[00:24:49] But I think from the LP standpoint is this works with your participation.

[00:24:55] You get support with your participation.

[00:24:57] So right now our main goal is review collection.

[00:25:00] We eventually would love to have every single sponsor represented on the site with reviews.

[00:25:06] It's as simple as that because that paints a good picture.

[00:25:09] It paints a good picture long-term.

[00:25:11] You know – and, oh, sorry, one thing I didn't mention is this is free to the LP, right?

[00:25:16] And I think that's one of our biggest differentiators is there's, you know, communities and there's forums where something like this exists.

[00:25:26] It's fragmented and some of them are unverified.

[00:25:29] So our goal is like, hey, this will never be charged to the LP because we want every single LP using it.

[00:25:34] And that's where the real value comes from.

[00:25:37] On top of that, we take no part of the deal.

[00:25:39] So we are not incentivized by capital raise.

[00:25:42] We are not commissioned based on invested dollars.

[00:25:45] There's actually nowhere to invest on our site and we're not registered with any regulatory agency.

[00:25:49] And that's how we remain objective and how we stay unbiased and retain the trust of the LP.

[00:25:54] So they can know that they're not on here and we're not being influenced by, you know, kickbacks on deal or anything like that.

[00:26:01] Yeah, no, I think – and thank you for bringing that up.

[00:26:03] And I wish we would have got into that earlier because that is – there are other communities, as you mentioned.

[00:26:08] Some have a nominal fee.

[00:26:09] Some have what I would consider too high of a fee to really garner the participation of those.

[00:26:17] And I think you'll actually get better results because of that because there's really no reason for an LP not to come in and participate in a platform like this.

[00:26:27] Yeah, very good.

[00:26:28] Well, Pat, this has been really informative.

[00:26:30] I'm excited about it.

[00:26:31] I know I have a personal profile for my own personal investments.

[00:26:35] Impact Equity has a profile as well that we want to grow our reviews there.

[00:26:39] And I'll continue to send people to the site because I think this is something that's needed.

[00:26:45] It's going to become more and more needed as exposure to alternative investments continues to grow and grow in this environment.

[00:26:54] So, yeah, thank you for all you're doing.

[00:26:56] I really appreciate it.

[00:26:57] I would – before we wrap up, I would like, if we can, to go through just a few questions.

[00:27:02] I'd like to ask everybody if you still have a few moments.

[00:27:04] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:27:05] All right.

[00:27:05] Let's jump in.

[00:27:06] So, I know you are a big mindset guy.

[00:27:12] You are constantly trying to grow and improve.

[00:27:15] I'm curious, are there any educational resources that you would offer to the passive investor or just the community as a whole, whether it be around passive investing or not?

[00:27:25] Yeah, I mean, disconnected from actual investing, I would say, as a mindset coach, I think that's been the biggest, biggest change in my entire life.

[00:27:35] I think the growth that has come from that is huge.

[00:27:40] If we want to go directly into the passive investing, I loved the Best Ever Conference.

[00:27:45] There's another one coming up in March.

[00:27:47] I thought it was unbelievably valuable to both sides, those trying to become a GP, those looking to understand LP strategies.

[00:27:56] There are a panelist and there are sessions directly to the LP.

[00:28:01] And you also get to network in person with people, which in this digital world doesn't happen as much as it should anymore.

[00:28:08] So, yeah, I would definitely recommend that.

[00:28:10] Yeah.

[00:28:11] I would say, yeah.

[00:28:13] Go ahead.

[00:28:14] Yeah.

[00:28:15] Yeah.

[00:28:15] Any good books or podcasts that you have listened to recently or ones that you follow?

[00:28:21] Yeah, it's funny.

[00:28:22] I could go into mindset stuff all day long.

[00:28:24] But one of my favorite books that I've read recently was Ed Milet's The Power of – I think it was The Power of One More.

[00:28:30] It's applicable to everything in life.

[00:28:32] It really is.

[00:28:32] Especially as I'm going through personally, I'm building this tech company from the ground up.

[00:28:38] I have no experience doing something like that hands-on.

[00:28:41] And so the, I would say, psychological warfare you go through on a daily basis if you're making the right decision is difficult.

[00:28:50] And so just getting the understanding of the fundamentals of that book, I loved it.

[00:28:56] I love the book as well.

[00:28:57] He's got a great podcast.

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:28:59] I often share the story when I was in sales.

[00:29:03] I was traveling out of market every other week.

[00:29:06] And I would fly in on Tuesday and come back on Thursday.

[00:29:09] And I was a cold call sales guy.

[00:29:11] I was meeting with clients.

[00:29:12] And it would always be Thursday around noon.

[00:29:15] You're tired.

[00:29:16] You've been in front of 50 clients in the last handful of days.

[00:29:19] And it was always that last prospect, that last client you would go out and see that would inevitably would be like the biggest sale and the best sale of the whole trip.

[00:29:31] So like this idea of One More does such a great job.

[00:29:34] He's got such a passionate way of him.

[00:29:36] And he's just an amazing communicator as well.

[00:29:39] I love his book, his podcast.

[00:29:41] And if you ever get to see the guy in person as well, he's fantastic.

[00:29:45] Yeah, I'd love to.

[00:29:45] I've been on a big Ed Milad kick lately.

[00:29:48] It's yeah, his podcast is fantastic.

[00:29:51] Awesome.

[00:29:52] All right.

[00:29:52] Now let's see here.

[00:29:53] Since we are a podcast that's geared around due diligence, I've got to ask the question, what would be one piece of due diligence advice that you could share with the audience?

[00:30:02] And I got a feeling where you might go with this, but I'll let you run with it.

[00:30:05] Yeah, the biggest one I would recommend is getting outside the influence of the sponsor in your decision making cycle.

[00:30:13] I'll tell everyone social proof is critical, right?

[00:30:16] But social proof in the manner of it's good to get educational resources from the sponsor.

[00:30:22] It's great to review decks.

[00:30:24] It's great to review everything, but make sure you're getting outside of their influence.

[00:30:27] So there's no confirmation bias or anything like that when you're making your decision.

[00:30:31] Leverage objective resources.

[00:30:33] Leverage resources.

[00:30:35] Leverage resources that are not provided by the actual sponsor, whether that be mentors, partners, friends, other investors to help with that step by step.

[00:30:45] Because I think the marketing of financial returns is very, very easy to absorb.

[00:30:51] It may not be simple at times, but it is easy.

[00:30:55] And so understanding the qualitative experience that other investors have had in like along the journey of those financial returns is just as important as the numbers.

[00:31:07] And you just so happen to have a platform where people can do that.

[00:31:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:31:11] I'll point you in the right direction.

[00:31:13] Well, it's funny you say that because like everybody always says like ask the operator for a reference or a testimonial.

[00:31:20] And who are those operators going to give you?

[00:31:23] They're going to give you your best friend, that one investor that's been with you since the beginning that has only invested in your best deals.

[00:31:30] And who knows what kind of benefit he's getting from doing that.

[00:31:34] So yeah, you're offering your solution is the best unbiased solution, I think, for that question.

[00:31:40] All right.

[00:31:41] So a couple of final questions that I like to ask everybody just to get to know you a little bit better on a personal note.

[00:31:45] But is there a recent bucket list item that you've checked off your list or one you hope to in the near future?

[00:31:52] Yeah.

[00:31:52] So I am heading to Japan in April with my wife, which is I'm super pumped about.

[00:31:59] I went for a very short stint a couple of years ago.

[00:32:02] My wife has never gotten to experience anything as culturally rich as that.

[00:32:06] So I'm so excited to go there with her.

[00:32:10] And so I know you mentioned earlier that you have a two-year-old or soon to be two-year-old.

[00:32:16] Is the two-year-old traveling to Japan as well?

[00:32:18] No, he's not coming with us.

[00:32:19] I think if it was one more year, we'd bring him.

[00:32:22] But no, luckily, my mom is just amazing with him.

[00:32:27] So he's going to stay with my mom for the week.

[00:32:29] Good for you.

[00:32:29] Good for you.

[00:32:30] That's awesome.

[00:32:30] I cannot imagine a two-year-old on a 15-hour flight heading over to Japan.

[00:32:34] I can't imagine.

[00:32:36] I know.

[00:32:36] Very good.

[00:32:37] All right.

[00:32:38] And then one final question that we ask everybody.

[00:32:40] If you had $100,000 to invest today, but you couldn't put it into your own deal or your

[00:32:46] own business, where would you invest that?

[00:32:48] Yeah.

[00:32:48] Ah, man.

[00:32:49] I read it on the prep form.

[00:32:51] We talked about it earlier.

[00:32:52] It's tough right now.

[00:32:53] My life is this platform right now.

[00:32:56] All my money is going into the platform.

[00:32:57] I think, again, I'm pretty bullish on multifamily still.

[00:33:01] I really am.

[00:33:01] I'm still actively investing locally.

[00:33:04] I think communities are important to invest into.

[00:33:08] You know, a lot of...

[00:33:09] I would still invest in multifamily for sure.

[00:33:14] Okay.

[00:33:15] Yeah.

[00:33:16] And I heard some hesitation, maybe community as well.

[00:33:18] So...

[00:33:19] And that ties nicely to the mindset coaching that you mentioned earlier.

[00:33:24] Yeah.

[00:33:24] But you are still bullish on multifamily.

[00:33:26] Good to hear.

[00:33:27] Yeah.

[00:33:27] You know, because I...

[00:33:28] You're seeing it front lines.

[00:33:29] Yeah.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:30] And I think it's because, you know, I did the...

[00:33:33] What I mean by community is, like, where can you plant your roots?

[00:33:38] I think where can you make an impact?

[00:33:40] Because I've done...

[00:33:41] I did the long distance thing.

[00:33:42] And it felt like, you know, balls that were checks and decisions and things like that.

[00:33:48] But as I've grown, I'm investing more locally.

[00:33:52] And I think the value of investing locally in community, from my standpoint, on like the

[00:33:57] active side of thing, has been a lot more fulfilling.

[00:34:01] And, you know, transparently as a passive investor, I like to be able to drive by my properties

[00:34:06] as well.

[00:34:07] So I understand investing in your community, you put a hundred grand into a value add project

[00:34:12] that's 10 miles from the house.

[00:34:14] You can go by and see the value that's actually creating.

[00:34:16] So yeah.

[00:34:18] No doubt.

[00:34:18] Very good.

[00:34:19] Well, awesome, Pat.

[00:34:20] Well, this has been a lot of fun.

[00:34:22] How can the audience find you and find Invest Clearly if they want to hear more?

[00:34:27] Yeah, perfect.

[00:34:28] So my email address is pat at investclearly.com.

[00:34:31] The site is investclearly.com.

[00:34:34] And we're on all social media across the board at Invest Clearly.

[00:34:38] Well, Pat, thank you so much.

[00:34:39] This has been educational.

[00:34:41] It's been fun.

[00:34:42] It's good to get to know you even a little bit better.

[00:34:44] I feel like we've known each other for...

[00:34:45] Well, we have known each other for years and years.

[00:34:47] But good to continue that relationship.

[00:34:49] But Pat, thanks so much for being on the show.

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:52] Thank you, Randy.

[00:34:53] Thank you for having me on.

[00:34:54] Awesome.

[00:34:54] All right.

[00:34:55] And to the audience, as always, I urge you to continue your education process in passive

[00:35:00] investing.

[00:35:01] But more importantly than that, I urge you to actually make the first investment.

[00:35:04] Make the decision that you will start passive investing.

[00:35:07] And I am convinced that once you do, you will just wish you had started that much sooner.

[00:35:11] So be sure to like and subscribe on whatever channel that you're listening.

[00:35:15] And be sure to join us again next Thursday for another great episode.

[00:35:19] Thank you.

[00:35:20] Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:35:22] Another episode of The Gentle Art of Crushing It.

[00:35:25] It was an amazing episode.

[00:35:27] We know we sure learned a lot and we hope you did as well.

[00:35:30] We want to take a second and thank you so much for viewing or listening to this episode.

[00:35:35] And please just know that we only ask for one favor.

[00:35:38] And that is to make this life magnificent.

[00:35:41] Thank you and have a wonderful day.